MiG farming

agmantoo · #21 05/03/06, 12:59 PM

.netDude
I am located near the intersection of I-40 and I-77 in the Piedmont area of North Carolina.

Up North · #22 05/03/06, 01:55 PM

Agmantoo, I know you mentioned Arrowleaf clover. Do you have Coastal Bermuda in your forage base? If so, how do they stack up in comparison?

Philip · #23 05/03/06, 05:02 PM

I'm clearer on it now, thanks. Yes, set stocking is unusual here, more used in the high country stations where the sheep are run up into the hills over summer and mustered back down to the flats lower down over winter. All other grazing systems use rotational grazing based on available feed and the type of grass in the paddock.

I had thought it was a bold new initiative that would sweep the world of farming ! Oh well, I'll wait for the next Big Thing !

agmantoo · #24 05/03/06, 08:05 PM

Up North
Costal Bermuda does not do well where I live. What does flourish is endophyte infected fescue. Other than the legumes that are interspersed in the fescue, the fescue is the only feed the cattle get. The cattle seem to have adapted to the fescue and have become tolerant of the endophyte problems. I keep my own heifers as replacement broodstock and typically I buy good bulls and rotate the bulls every 2 years. I have a high ratio of cows to bulls (~45 to 1) and the bulls are not accustomed to the feed and they do show evidence of the wear. The entire herd is comingled and 1 bull is dominate and he looked haggled during the winter but is responding to the grass and legumes now.

Up North · #25 05/03/06, 11:31 PM

Agmantoo- 100% grazing 12 months of year takes skill, land, and creative management even in your climate. There are a few dairyman who are acheiving this in Texas and Oklahoma. My question is, do you acheive this by stockpiling fescue and doling it out carefully, planting cereal grains for winter
feed, or some other strategy?

agmantoo · #26 05/04/06, 11:30 AM

Up North,
I achieve the 365 days per year with no harvested hay by stock piling fescue only. Fertilizer is applied twice per year, August and Feb. I also sell feeder calves that are consistently in the top 10 percentage at the local sale barn. I realize that the market price has been abnormally high over the passed few years and that the talking heads on TV say we are in for a downturn. Not getting the good prices will be disappointing but I am confident that I can compete with any other producers and can endure until nothing but the most efficient survive. Actually, I expect to make a profit regardless, it will be just less profit. Rotational grazing creates a significant margin that others never realize regardless of the market price. What percentage of gross sales would you expect a producer to realize in todays market? This would be with no hired help and realize I do not use a vet. I only buy minerals and fertilizer and land costs are not considered as the land is paid for other than the property taxes which have a major defferal for ag use.

Up North · #27 05/04/06, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agmantoo

Up North,
I achieve the 365 days per year with no harvested hay by stock piling fescue only. Fertilizer is applied twice per year, August and Feb. I also sell feeder calves that are consistently in the top 10 percentage at the local sale barn. I realize that the market price has been abnormally high over the passed few years and that the talking heads on TV say we are in for a downturn. Not getting the good prices will be disappointing but I am confident that I can compete with any other producers and can endure until nothing but the most efficient survive. Actually, I expect to make a profit regardless, it will be just less profit. Rotational grazing creates a significant margin that others never realize regardless of the market price. What percentage of gross sales would you expect a producer to realize in todays market? This would be with no hired help and realize I do not use a vet. I only buy minerals and fertilizer and land costs are not considered as the land is paid for other than the property taxes which have a major defferal for ag use.

Agman care to explain the use of strip-grazing stockpiled forages? I feel this is a HUGE opportunity being missed by North American cattle producers.
Also, the description of your beef operation implies that your beef cattle receive little or no grain. What size cow would your experience deem is the most efficient for your type of production?

Up North · #28 05/04/06, 11:47 PM

The neatest rotational grazing operation I have seen is in the steep hillsides of the Mississippi River Valley near Sparta, WI. I was there in 1999 buying dairy heifers. The older fellow had a small polebarn, about 30X24, that was the central "hub" of the system. All Paddock division fences went outward from the barn like spokes on a wheel. The cattle went into and thru the barn for every paddock shift to go to new grass. Come time to sort off the heifers I picked, the old boy just walked into the barn, the whole group of cattle followed him in, anticipating going to new grass. We sorted and loaded my new ones into stock trailer, sent remaining heifers out to new grass in less than 20 minutes, with no stress to cattle or us.
.....I kinda liked his operation.................

furholler · #29 05/05/06, 04:57 PM

Wow! This is encouraging to see so many interested in MiG. Sorry it took me so long to respond, my modem got zapped and had to wait to get the new one. I will try the frost planting method this winter. I really have no need to plant as we have had plenty of rain and the grass is green and good. However, my pastures consist of Little Blue Stem and a mix of fescue and Sage grass and I would like to plant a legume or two. I will have to feed hay for a year or two during the winter, but want to get down to zero hay.

Valmai · #30 05/06/06, 06:42 AM

agmantoo Do you back break as well?

furholler · #31 05/06/06, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valmai

agmantoo Do you back break as well?

Huh??

agmantoo · #32 05/06/06, 08:07 PM

I posted an article on compensatory growth and got to thinking I may have someone thinking that the cattle that I have on rotational grazing without feeding hay may fall under that situation. Let me reassure that is not the case. A few of the regulars to this site have visited and can support that is not what they witnessed. My cattle typically maintain a body condition score of 5 or better year around. Near the time of weaning, I may have a heavy milk producing brood cow that is starting to show a little rib but that is the exception.

Faith Farm · #33 05/06/06, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agmantoo

Faith Farm.....go to http://www.kencove.com/ShopItemIG.php?item=Step-In+Post and scroll down to the RPT step in posts. At $1.95 this is undoubtedly the best temporary post on the market. Buy some of these and you will trash the flimsy PVC/plastic ones. Inadequate rainfall is hitting both of us hard. I have learned that usually one extremely is followed by another so maybe it will start raining soon and we will have a wet summer. Continue to cut the paddock size until the cattle are getting all they can graze in 2 each 45 minute time periods per day. Move to the tallest grass you have each time you move, even it that is the area you grazed more recently than other paddocks. You want to NOT stress the grass by over grazing and you need to get the cattle OFF the paddock before the cattle graze below 3 inches. Keep the manure pies broken up and scattered so that the cattle will graze 100% of the areas. Did you fertilize in the earlier part of Spring and how is your PH? Remember that in difficult times that it will not hurt the cattle to lose some of their body condition. We will have a good opportunity to replinish that loss in the Fall. During warm weather it does not take as much feed as during Winter. When you can see 2 ribs on one side then it is time to pull the emergency plan (hay) out. In 3 years I have only fed 5 round bales and they wasted that. You are stocking at approximately 2 acres per cow/calf and I am tighter than that at this time so you should be fine. Do not let your pastures go to seed. If you do, the grass will stop growing. Keeping the heads cut off will enhance the growth when it does rain. Additionally, with the grass cut, it will grow some off the heavy dews we have been experiencing. Good Luck and hang in!
PS....ask your extension agent if arrowleaf clover grows readily in your area. I find it superior to all other clovers I have tried. Arrowleaf grows low and lush if grazed hard and does decently even in dry periods.

AGMANTOO,
Thanks for the step in post info. I ordered a bunch for my smaller paddocks
to be setup when they come in. Your question to me about PH & fertilizer?
I limed 1 ton per acre last month but no fertilizer. This August I will add what
my last soil test recommended as some areas need more of one thing than others.
Do you sell most of your stock @ a particular weight and primarily @ the sale barn?
I am considering taking over a well established Farm Market stand in three locations
in my area selling beef, chicken, pork, lamb, rabbit and goat. My herd and another
I have acces to might not be large enough to meet the need. If you will welcome a visit, my wife and I would like to talk beef.

agmantoo · #34 05/06/06, 10:59 PM

FF,
I market calves that average around 500 lb. at the local sales barn. I try to send a load about every 3 months. This way I am able to spread my sales throughout the year and when prices fluctuate I will not receive the high nor the low for the year but somewhere in between. This method also reduces my hauling expense as I will have nearly a stock trailer full of animals. I do not want to market when the market is flooded by those that either Spring or Fall calve.
Regarding your fertilizing, do you have access to any poultry litter? It is great for improving pastures. A Spring application will give a significant boost to growth. I apply nitrogen often in the Spring but will at times use a balanced fertilizer depending on price. In the late Summer I apply a high nitrogen and phosphate fertilizer (DAP)
You have a private message!

Valmai · #35 05/07/06, 06:21 AM

Furholler Back breaking is when you put an electric fence behind the cows as well as in front, to keep them off the area they have just eaten.

agmantoo · #36 05/07/06, 12:01 PM

Valmai,
I apologize for not answering your question earlier but I was uncertain of your definition. My method of rotational grazing during times of adequate growth of the forage is to never permit the cattle to back graze. I want the cattle off the grass when there is at least 3 inches of height remaining. This height will enhance regrowth. During times when the forage is stressed due to dry weather I still try to move the animals off and I attempt to always graze the tallest forage that I have. In late Winter if I am having to stretch the stockpiled fescue I will give the animals access to what they are to graze but I will allow them the opportunity to back graze since the fescue is nearly dormant. IMO it is essential to give the animals access to decent grazing for 2 periods of 45 minutes each day. If circumstances do not permit that I would feed hay. I have a unique method of accessing my paddocks that I have not seen others use. To minimize the paths cattle make as they move from feed to water to shade I use a 7 1/2 ft. length of 2 inch diameter PVC with a V notch in one end. I remove the paddock single strand hi tensile wire from its post and place the PVC pipe over the post, then I raise the wire up and place same in the V. The cattle just walk under the wire. If a path starts to wear I just relocate the PVC pipe to an adjacent post. This works real neat and I can drive my 4 wheeler under the wire, the PVC insulates the hi tensile and everything works as if the fence was not altered.

furholler · #37 05/07/06, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faith Farm

AGMANTOO,
Thanks for the step in post info. I ordered a bunch for my smaller paddocks
to be setup when they come in. Your question to me about PH & fertilizer?
I limed 1 ton per acre last month but no fertilizer. This August I will add what
my last soil test recommended as some areas need more of one thing than others.
Do you sell most of your stock @ a particular weight and primarily @ the sale barn?
I am considering taking over a well established Farm Market stand in three locations
in my area selling beef, chicken, pork, lamb, rabbit and goat. My herd and another
I have acces to might not be large enough to meet the need. If you will welcome a visit, my wife and I would like to talk beef.

This brings up another question. How do you do a soil test, and what exactly are you looking for?

furholler · #38 05/07/06, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valmai

Furholler Back breaking is when you put an electric fence behind the cows as well as in front, to keep them off the area they have just eaten.

Thanks. I guess I already do that. Is there anything that can be done to prevent the blackberries from growing besides goats? We have lots of 'em.

.netDude · #39 05/08/06, 11:39 AM

Might be helpful:
(online grazing class from u of maine)
http://www.umaine.edu/umext/pasture/

Gideon's War · #40 06/05/06, 06:03 PM

One question to the northern folk, how does MiG work in winter? Being in NW Indiana where we can get a few inches of snow at a crack, seems kind of hard for them to graze. Would I have to just hay during the winter months? I will have to pickup a few of the books mentioned though.