Feed budget - Need help
 

Need some help...

Trying to figure out how much feed I need to budget for. We have seemed to go through about 2 bales of alphfa a day. The bales way in at about #70.

As i figure, we should go though about a bail a day (from what i figured on what i was told) We are feeding a total daily protein of just under 18% (21% alphfa 14% grain)

We have 6 head:

Cow 1000 lbs - 30 lbs of feed = 20 Alphfa + 10 lbs grain
Cow 800 lbs - 24 lbs of feed = 16 Alphfa + 8 lbs grain
Heifer 500 lbs - 15 lbs of feed = 10 Alphfa + 5 lbs grain
Heifer 500 lbs - 15 lbs of feed = 10 Alphfa + 5 lbs grain
Calf 300 lbs - 9 lbs of feed = 7 Alphfa + 2 lbs grain
Calf 300 lbs - 9 lbs of feed = 7 Alphfa + 2 lbs grain

Total 3400 lbs - 104 lbs of feed = 70 Alphfa + 32 lbs grain


I should go through about 1 bail of Alphfa a day and a little more than half a bag of grain. (plus waste)

So, the question is are these numbers correct? Since I am going through 2 bails a day do i have a management problem or is it normal to have 50% waste from a bale?

I ask this because I need to contract for all the hay i need for the next 10 months. I dont want to run out and I dont want to have a bunch left over next summer when the fresh stuff is available. If i have a management problem with the hay, I want to fix it. Otherwise it is just good money down the drain...

Thanks for any insite anyone can give me!

Unless your hay is moldy or very poor quality there should be little or no waste if the hay feeder is the type they must stick their heads through to reach the hay. 2 70 pound bales of good alphalfa should be enough for all of them without any grain. If they aren't giving milk I would only feed grain to the smaller calves.

I think you're underestimating the amount the animals need. When we bought our cow we were told to expect her to eat about 40 lbs. a day of hay when milking, plus grain. Which is pretty much what she eats when she's totally off pasture in winter. It's also pretty dependent on how much they are milking, pregnancy, the weather, etc. Calves- can't comment because all mine are nursing and that cuts down on their hay intake.

The two cows are milking. The figure of 3 lbs per cwt is the feed ration that i got from the dairyman i bought the cattle from. Also, I do have pasture but i don't count that toward the feed intake. He did say that grass is 1/3 of dry matter (aka alphfa).

If the 3 lbs per cwt is wrong. What is the figure. Our % protein goal is 18% total. Our alphfa is 21% and the grain is 14%

If i feed 3 lbs per cwt then 20lbs of alphfa and 10lbs of grain for a 1000 lb cow.

If i feed 4 lbs per cwt then 23 lbs of alphfa and 17lbs of grain to get the 18%

To feed 40 lbs of alphfa I would need to feed 30 lbs of grain to get 18% total protein. That would be 70 lbs of feed a day or 7 lbs per ctw.

In my experience- you can't just assign a number saying you only need this much feed per pound of cow. Each cow is an individual in regards to her metabolism, production, and how she copes with milking and maintaining bodyweight. Feed what they need to stay fit and healthy, not what a weight ratio tells you. Intake will vary with production, climate, stage of pregnancy or growth, etc. The simpliest thing is to feed hay free choice and give enough grain to the milkers to maintain production and body condition- some cows needs 0 lbs, some need 15. I don't feed heifers grain unless they are looking thin and on alfalfa they shouldn't. Same with calves, though if they are weaned they probably need a good calf starter grain to keep them growing well.

I would order with 2 bales a day being your average- and remember a the calves and heifers grow the feed intake will increase, so keep that in mind and maybe increase the order to reflect that.

I rotationally graze grass and I never feed grain to my beef cattle. I do have some brood cows that will loose their "bloom" if they are milking heavily but not to the point where you can see more than two ribs raised. However, these cows will rebuild condition, consuming only grass, when the calves are weaned. Two of your comments were concerning. Where do you live that you need hay for 10 months a year and what means are you using to feed where you tolerate or expect waste? I am able to stockpile grass in the various pasture paddocks from which the animals harvest their feed during a non growing period. An electric partition wire is used to limit the area grazed. When I used to feed some hay I managed to place the hay to where the boss cows could not hog the feed and all the animals had a chance to eat and seldom did they manure the feed being fed and typically they ate all the hay. You may need to review your feeding technique. Quality hay amounting to 3% of body weight should maintain your animals and with daily observation you will know if a particular animal is getting adequate feed.

I figure in for my animals 40lbs for forage, with other misc stuff. I usually figure that in because I like to know what I will need through the winter. My beef cattle were eating, averaging as a whole, 65lbs per animal, with very little waste. I am feeding my dairy animals, atleast giving them access to 40lbs of grass silage per animal, 6lbs of corn meal, with hay ever so often (roughage). According to a book I looked over (Hoard Dairymen animal nutrition, or similar). They say the bunk should have 10% feed left, if it is empty it can mean they aren't getting enough. If it is tooo full, the feed might not be good, or over feeding. I don't like waste, but it can make sence if extra is left, and what is left is good too.


I figure in the 40lbs for larger animals, with hay, some eat more etc etc.
With the smaller heifers, 400lbs, I usually figure 20lbs, or so. With full size cows, some eat 65lbs a day (take a look at what high production animals need). Hay does fill them faster than forage, and 300lbs of hay fills them (fiber most likely), vs grass silage that is 600lbs+. In the same instance, the grass silage they can eat faster, and more of it. So they get more in, vs hay filling them.

If you bumped the calf to 15lbs per calf, 20lbs per heifer, and 35 per cow. It is exactly 140lbs, 2x70lb bale. So actually, it sounds spot on, but that is with hay alone. Bumping their hay intake to 30lbs for each cow, 20lbs for each heifer, and 15 for each calf. It equals 130lbs of hay, so yeah 2 bales isn't surprising :).


Jeff

I live in Colorado. The area is quite aired. We do have grass pastures but do not count on them because how dry it is.

The only person we have found that has good quality alphfa will not have anymore untill next June (8 months). When we do buy next June, I have to buy an entire 12 months worth then because they sells it all and sell it quickly. This year, i was only able to buy 250 bales before they run out so now have to contract for the rest that we need to get us to June. That put me in a position that I have pay more for the hay plus save up for next years buy.... what fun!

The stuff I need to contract for are 3x3x8 bales (was told that is 1 ton but thinking it is not) They are wanting $100 per ton ie big bale delivered on a monthly basis. I would think that I need 2 big bales (assuming 1 ton) per month starting in about Febuary for 5 months or 10 big bales.

Are these animals an expensive hobby? As a farmer I have difficulty understanding how you justify having them as the expense would exceed any opportunity to make a profit. Have you tried to grow forage such as milo that is tolerant the arid conditions?

You are right, it would be an expensive hobby if we were not getting something out of them.

Our goal is to have healthy animals that produce lots of calfs and milk over the long haul. We are not into feeding them to produce milk like crazy and be dead after 2 lactations.

As far a milo... Well we have no implements to plant it. So it would be cost prohibitive at this point.

Our deal is that we are not in an area that is geared to dairies (just beef cows and horses). We do not have access to silage without driving a long ways. We have a co-op that makes us a custom mix of grain that is corn, sunflower chips, molasas, and some calcium. We dont feed soy because we have folks that want milk that are anti soy.

We dont feed grass because it is the same price as alphfa but is inconsistant in its nutrition (we were having problems when we were feeding a brome/alphfa mix). The alphfa is constant 20-21%

The formula of 3lbs per 100 was what the dairyman feeds his herd but has access to lush grass. I am using the formula to estimate the feed needed to get through the winter as well as how much i need to plan on buying next June.

Also, we are looking at adding a Brown Swiss to the fun. She is about 1200lbs, currently producing about 24lbs a day and is breed. Not sure when she is due to calf but at 24 lbs a day would think she is towared the end of her lactation. (Will find out more info later)

I would like to make sure I plan on enought to feed her as well.

One of our other cows are due to calf in Febuary and will have a little more feed consumption there to calculate in.

Found this:

http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/periodica...0/aps-974.html

There is another option, calculate high to give you an idea, and adjust accordingly.


Figure 180lbs across the board per day. That would be about 19 tons through May. So it would be about 19 of those big square bales. Keep in mind, this is with 30 averaged across the board. Adjust it with your figures and it should help. With 19x100.00, it is 1900.00 for hay.



Jeff

"chicken litter"? Is this what I think it is? Pretty sure that is why I want to milk my own cow...so that stuff like this isn't in her diet.
Good luck.
Blessings

http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/farmasyst...0/442-910.html

somebody tell me please this is not true

Susanne,
I am afraid it probably is. Chicken litter is suposed to be a source of protien. Doesn't that just sound like it would be delicious?! (joking)
Anyway...that's why I use only quality grain and hay for my animals...and only limited grain for that matter. I would rather never have them if I had to feed them garbage.
Blessings,

Surely.... not.... USED chicken litter?

sounds like used to me

http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/farmasyst...0/442-910.html


Nearly all broiler, pullet, and breeder operations grow the birds on concrete, wooden, or earthen floors. A 2-to 6-inch layer of wood shavings, peanut hulls, or other bedding material is used as an absorptive base. The manure and bedding mixture is commonly called litter, and it is removed one or more times a year and replaced with fresh bedding material. Most broiler operations produce 1.1 to 1.4 tons of litter per 1,000 birds. For a flock of 18,000 to 20,000 birds, this amounts to between 22 and 34 tons of litter per flock.

Poultry litter and carcass residues are nutrient-rich materials which can benefit the farmstead. Broiler litter is often used as a feed supplement for cattle.

Excuse me while I barf.....

1 of the main reasons i do not eat meat bought from a store nor bought when we go out to eat ,, which is not often, things like chicken litter fed back to other animals, arsnic in chicken feed to prevent cocci, then into the litter then into the other animals people are eating,,, not me

I was really shocked too. Do know that in the past they also put blood meal into feed for cattle.

Lots and LOTS of reasons to grow it all at home!

What makes it a bigger joke, is the fact milk companies allow it. Yet they throw a hissy fit if you use hydrogen peroxide in the water system. They also have a fit if you were to use the water bowl line as your main line for water. Yet when you wash, it is at 180 degrees. You can get bacteria in a regular water line, just as much as a water bowl line, if not more. Considering the water bowl line could be used more.


Jeff

MaryF, the figure that your dairyman uses is correct. It's 3% of the cow's weight should equal pounds of dry matter for the daily diet. So if you have a 1000 # cow, she'd get 30# of DM per day. Figure that dry hay and grain would have 10% moisture, so you are looking at 33# in actual feed per day for that cow. (If you had her on corn silage, that figure would be much higher since silage has a lot of water in it.)

Acceptable waste is considered to be 10%, and generally speaking that will be all in the forage portion of the diet. Are you seeing uneaten/laid on hay or are you seeing an empty manger?

Cows can stuff in another 5# of hay a day if it's really excellent. That may be why you think yours are eating that much. I am going to round bales this year, but in the past I've fed small square bales, around 70# like yours, and how I do it is just put the hay out, say 12 bales, and then see what's left at night. If they wasted a lot, they get 11 bales the next feeding. If they cleaned it all up, they get 13, etc. In any case, I always figure 1/2 of a bale a day per cow here for an average figure that works pretty well. Heifers get some less, but call it 60% of the cow ratio for the average calf ration.

I wouldn't push too much grain on your milkers when they are gettin excellent alfalfa like that, either. And at only $100 a ton for hay like that delivered, well! Can't beat that price! Might want to think about feeding them 4:1 on feed instead of 3:1.

Jennifer

Yes, we have a lot un uneaten hay that gets soiled because the pick through it.

Also, the lady that was offering the bales had to correct herself. They are 3x3x8 bales that are about #800 lbs and she is asking $60 delivered.