Can a hand pump co-exist with a shallow jet pump?

PD-Riverman · #21 10/13/10, 07:19 PM

Yes the water pressure pushes the pipe back up----When its 10ft washed up, I take off a 10ft piece and wash up 10 more feet. Yes making a pond/pool to filter the sand out and reuse the water makes alot of difference. It takes a good 75 to 100 gpm to wash down the 3" pipe. My 48ft well I did by myself and it took around 3 to 4 hours but between 30 and 40ft I hit rocks and had to move. I moved about 100ft and washed it down in about 2 hours of the 3 to 4 hours. Keep in mind I had prep time getting things ready before I started washing it down. I have 3 wells on my property, one is 52ft and produces 42gpm as I stated above, one is 48ft and it produces 25 to 30gpm with a 5hp gas farm pump hooked to it, but after testing I hooked my 1/2hp shallow well pump and Hand pump to this one, Then I have a 28ft one that is beside where I allow my Brother-in-law to plant a garden, he gets about 8gpm out of it. We were going deeper but hit coquina and my BIL said we would try it at that depth instead of moving.

PS Do you know how to tell you are in a water producing stream??

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhead

Does the water pressure help lift the 3" pipe?

That's an interesting method. I may try it sometime. If I do I'll find out what the bentonite mixture is and use it for the water. When I watched the drillers do my big well at the fish farm it was the consistency of muddy water. That should work just fine for jetting.

I remember reading about some kind of tank system that would allow the sand to separate from the water so the water could be reused.

PorkChopsMmm · #22 10/14/10, 06:43 AM

I picked up all of my materials to sink the well point -- sections of galvanized pipe, check valves, and teflon tape. I think keeping the pipe straight and level will be my biggest challenge.

PorkChopsMmm · #23 10/14/10, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PD-Riverman

I have had my water pump and hand pump hooked up for several years with no problem. Just use a T and a good check valve on each "pump". I used no cut off valves, just the check valves. I don't know how your 20 ft well will work in 17ft water table, you got to put some screen on the bottom of the well so I would go a little deeper. I don't know your Dirt 20ft down, but In 2 hours I washed down my Well 48ft deep, 2" pvc with 8ft of screen,. With a 5hp gas farm pump hooked to it---it will produce 28 gpm. I have a 1/2hp shallow well pump hooked to it, which runs on Solar and My hand Pump runs on Pepsi----pump a while, drink a Pepsi. Good Luck!

PD -- one last question. Are your check valves under ground or close in-line with the hand pump and electric pump? I am wondering if I should put the check valves near the T joint that will be underground or aboveground and near the hand pump and electric pump. Thanks!

PD-Riverman · #24 10/14/10, 07:45 AM

Pork Chop, Had a Idea, What if you washed down a 3/4" pvc pipe then pull the pvc out and drive your well point etc in the wash out hole, this would give you a hole, plus you will be able to see how hard the dirt is Feet down and also see if there is a decent stream, plus how deep you will have to go to hit it. If you had to haul water it should not take Alot to wash it down. I would be afraid that I would drive my point etc into the dirt and not hit a Stream and Loose it---Sure can not pull it back up by hand------Just a thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PorkChopsMmm

I picked up all of my materials to sink the well point -- sections of galvanized pipe, check valves, and teflon tape. I think keeping the pipe straight and level will be my biggest challenge.

PD-Riverman · #25 10/14/10, 08:03 AM

Pork Chop, my check valve for the Hand punp is under ground about a foot. What I did was dig around the well pipe where I could put my T about 1 1/2 feet down----side outlet of T goes to the water pump and Where I 90 degree to come out the ground for the pump I put that check valve just aboue the 90(guess I am from the old school and Want my check valves standing up instead of laying on their side) Back to the hand pump above the check valve----At ground Level I installed another T and added a water spiket to use as a drain in the winter because my hand pump is out in the open--don't want water setting in that pipe and it freeze or have to worry about wrapping it----Just open the spiket and let it drain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PorkChopsMmm

PD -- one last question. Are your check valves under ground or close in-line with the hand pump and electric pump? I am wondering if I should put the check valves near the T joint that will be underground or aboveground and near the hand pump and electric pump. Thanks!

fishhead · #26 10/14/10, 10:32 AM

PD-Riverman,

Thanks for answering my questions.

When I drive a well I fill the pipe with water. When the sand point is in the vein the water goes down the pipe. Then I pour more water in the pipe and if it keeps disappearing I'm good to go.

PorkchopsMmm,

The check valve goes on the pipe AFTER you are done driving because it's usually brass and will break if you pound on it. The further from the pump you place it the easier your pump will prime because of the larger volume of water available to the pump.

I think jetting in a 3/4" pvc to create a hole is a good idea. That should save a ton of work. I wish I had thought of that when I drove my most recent well last December.

PorkChopsMmm · #27 10/14/10, 10:42 AM

I was planning on putting on the check valve after driving the well but putting it below the freeze line (42"). I wouldn't be pounding with it. My plan was to dig a 42" deep hole and drive down, putting the check valve and the other piping to raise it above ground on when I was done. If the check valve keeps water available to the hand pump, which will be outside, how can I keep it from freezing? Put in the drain as PD mentioned?

PorkChopsMmm · #28 10/14/10, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhead

When I drive a well I fill the pipe with water. When the sand point is in the vein the water goes down the pipe. Then I pour more water in the pipe and if it keeps disappearing I'm good to go.

This is good advice. I was figuring I would need to lower a string with cloth on the end to know when I hit water but filling the pipe up with water sounds easier. This is all off-grid so I don't have access to enough water or equipment to use water to help dig the well. I have a 12lb sledge hammer so I don't think it will be too hard to sink. The ground is very sandy.

fishhead · #29 10/14/10, 06:01 PM

I would advise getting/renting a post driver instead of using a hammer. It will go straighter and be much easier and safer for you.

We have nothing but sand here for probably the first 10' and it still took a lot of effort to drive the 1 1/4" sand point.

I didn't get to try it because I found out after I was all done but supposedly the pipe will drive just as fast if you use short taps with the driver compared with trying to kill it every stroke.

One thing to consider is how hard it is to work wrenches while you are standing on your head in a hole.

I didn't think about that when I did my well and even after shoveling the pit larger for another 1/2 hour and using cheater pipes on the 24" wrenches it was still hard to get the joints tight.

PorkChopsMmm · #30 10/18/10, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhead

I would advise getting/renting a post driver instead of using a hammer. It will go straighter and be much easier and safer for you.

I did take this advice and rented an 80lb jack hammer with a well drive bit. Was a beast to get on top of the pipe sections but it made driving a breeze.

To address if the well is working or not... maybe you all can comment?
About 1/4 mile away on the property from where I am drilling, and further away from a small creek, is a 1 1/4" well point that is sunk to ~21 feet that produces great water. At a neighbors property about a half mile away there is a well point sunk to ~20 feet that also produces good water. I started sinking this well and hit a strong flow of clay-ish water around 16 feet. The water had a strong odor and was very gray in color, like clay. If the water dried it left a clay residue. I drove down a few more feet and the flow of clay-water slowed significantly. I drove down a few feet further, well point now at ~23 feet and I was able to pump up clay water again. Not having much time I only pumped the water for 5 or 10 minutes but it stayed they same color without a change in consistency. When I returned the jack hammer the guy at the counter said using the jack hammer can stir up the silt and the driven well point could be covered in clay, so that's what I would be pumping up.

What do you guys think? Did I drive down too far and should I be worried about the clay water?

fishhead · #31 10/18/10, 08:58 AM

My new well pumped clay water for a while. That's typical. I think it took about 1/2 hour to clear up.

PorkChopsMmm · #32 10/18/10, 09:39 AM

Great news, thank you. I bought a 3/4 HP shallow well Jet Pump. I will hook that up to see if I can get some of the silt out. I appreciate the help.

fishhead · #33 10/18/10, 11:53 AM

A 1/2 hp will do just as well and is cheaper to buy and run.

If you want volume a trash pump works better. I don't know about pressure.

I had a 3/4 hp jet pump on a well. The best it would do is 10 gal/min. I switched to a 1/2 hp trash pump and it put out 20 gal/min. Cheaper to run and twice the volume.

PorkChopsMmm · #34 10/18/10, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhead

A 1/2 hp will do just as well and is cheaper to buy and run.

If you want volume a trash pump works better. I don't know about pressure.

I had a 3/4 hp jet pump on a well. The best it would do is 10 gal/min. I switched to a 1/2 hp trash pump and it put out 20 gal/min. Cheaper to run and twice the volume.

Was the 1/2 hp trash pump cheaper to run because of electricity? Or purchase price? I bought a near new 3/4 HP shallow well jet pump with 5 gallon pressure tank for $75 off of CraigsList. I am hoping that this in the long term can give us a pressurized water system to our cabin... well... most likely with a bigger pressure tank. 5 gallon is fine for now.

fishhead · #35 10/18/10, 02:41 PM

The trash pump was another $10-$20 to buy but cheaper to run. I don't know if it would work for your application. I just used it to fill and empty ponds so I wanted max volume.

I think you got a good deal on your pump.

PorkChopsMmm · #36 11/10/10, 09:43 AM

Update: I was able to hook up my 3/4 HP shallow well pump and pump out the clay water. I got a steady stream of good clear water but now there is a sulphur smell. I did some reading and it turns out I should have poured some bleach down the well when I started. It could be as simple as that or I could have hit suplhur water, which will mean I will need an aerator and other components in line before using the water. This is strange because 2 other wells in the immediate area do not produce this odor.

What do you think, is pouring bleach in the well and agitating the water my best bet? Thanks for the help!

fishhead · #37 11/11/10, 04:47 PM

We tell customers to bleach their wells when they start getting a sulfur smell. It comes from iron bacteria.

Is the pump hooked up to the house plumbing? If so you will have to bleach the plumbing at the same time.

Be sure to follow the directions closely to get the maximum benefit. I don't have a link handy but it should be available online.