Geothermal heated waterer

Fishhead, most likely you know that water is heaviest at about 39 deg F, and that might figure in how you set up the waterer. Also...are you familiar with heat pipes?

Don't give up yet. If you can't sink the waterer down into the ground, bring the ground up to the waterer. Mound dirt up flush with the top of the waterer. Pack it down so that it becomes one with the ground. That will bring ground heat up. Your straw insulation is holding the ground heat down in the ground.

Genebo

What about putting a thick lining of sawdust under the water tank? Sawdust creates its own heat. I wonder if it would be enough heat to keep the water from freezing?

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Hi,
Is this still working out OK?
Some pictures would be great

You could start a new post on it so as not to interfere with Fishhead's design.

I'm building one for my neighbor -- we decided on the same kind of arrangement with her galvanized tank as the base, and in insulating shell around it.

Fishhead -- Just a thought, but I think you need a way to conduct more heat up through the pipe, and then from the pipe into the bucket. Maybe 1) something more conductive than the PVC pipe -- e.g. steel pipe? with insulation around it so that the heat that is transferred up the pipe is not lost out the sides before it gets up to the bucket. 2) more heat transfer area from the top of the pipe to the bucket. It seems like you have a heat transfer bottleneck where the top of the pipe contacts the bottom of the plastic bucket. If you could weld a (say) 10 inch diameter metal disk to the top of the steel pipe, so that the whole bottom of the bucket contacted the disk? With insulation under the metal disk?

Update at 8:30 -- Just trying to put some numbers to this. If instead of the PVC pipe you used a solid cylinder of aluminum 3 inches in diameter, and the water table water is a 50F, and the bucket is just above freezing, and the aluminum cylinder goes down 4 ft and is insulated on the sides, then the heat conducted up the aluminum would be about 25 BTU per hour. This would be enough to warm 2 gallons about 2F per hour -- so if the cool down rate in the bucket is less than 2F per hour, this would keep up with it.
The PVC pipe is well over a hundred times less conductive than the aluminum, so I don't think you can conduct a useful amount of heat up the PVC -- I think you need a much better conduction path from the water table water to the bucket.
All assuming I did the math right and I'm not missing something



Gary

The temp of the ground should be in the 40's at least and if I could tap into it the heat would be basically unlimited as long as it wasn't withdrawn too fast. I think it would warm the water above 39 degrees and cause it to rise. If not I'll end up with a 5' icycle.

The way it was originally set up the pipe stopped at ground level and the pail sat about 10" above that so the heat should have been able to contact most of the outside of the pail.

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Great idea, Fishhead, even if it didn't work so well on the first round. Keep at it! (The things we do for our geese!)

Just pound some steel rod into the ground under the bucket. a peice of old railroad rail maybe?

I can't seem to be able to find the stock waterers that I saw last year. Basic plan was to dig a 6'-9' deep hole, and put a closed pipe inside. Pipe was large, maybe 18" diameter.

... ok, found something similar...
http://www.cobett.com/faq.html

Much larger scale than what you are doing. for yours, I would build an insulated box to sit over the pan of water. Use the reflective bubble insulation on the inside. Only leave an opening large enough for one goose to get through.

Too late this year, but I want to try the following, and see if it works:
dig a hole 8' deep and bury the largest diameter pipe I can get. Close off the bottom, so its water tight. Dig around the hole, and put a layer of extruded polystyrene foam down. Insulate the pipe down to the frost line, and seal the foam to the pipe insulation. Backfill above the foam, and leave the pipe sticking 6" out of the ground. Fit a pan so it fits into the pipe, and fill the pipe with water.

The water in the pipe should create a thermosiphon to pump the heat out of the hole, and keep the water pan warm. The horizontal insulation will keep the soil around the pipe warmer, so you have more heat available. The larger diameter and using water may make it successful. Don't know if it would work or not ...

Michael

It sounds like a better design that what I tried.

__________________
"Do you believe in the devil? You know, a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man?" Hobbs
"I'm not sure that man needs the help." Calvin